Chess Forum
uskidscompute.com << online chess - < chess - chess > - chess online >>
| From | Message | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted by trond uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 08:09:23 Play online chess |  Subject: Yesss! Kramnik won!Message: Who's in another league now, huh? Cheers, Trond :-D | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted by trond uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 08:15:31 Play online chess | Update ... Message: Game 1: Topalov - Kramnik 0.5 - 0.5 Game 2: Kramnik - Topalov 1 - 0 Game 3: Topalov - Kramnik 1 - 0 Game 4: Kramnik - Topalov 1 - 0 In pratice Kramnik won both matches, both the 11-round match (I don't count the forfeited game) and the tie-breaks by one point. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted by yanm uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 08:16:28 Play online chess | true? Message: Topalov's team behaviour was quite questionable and so they deserved the loss. May chess be reunited now!... and Topalov hides in disgrace! I hope he had some nice words for Kramnik at the end? ——— When Bobby Fischer Played Chess Like Misha Tal — Reckless sacrifices were not his style, but for one day, one game and one moment in 1959 Bobby Fischer threw caution to the wind, went va banque and played like Mikhail Tal. His opponent was the Czech grandmaster Ludek Pachman and the game was played in Santiago de Chile. Tal mesmerized his opponents with a demonic look, quick mind and unsurpassed imagination. Sometimes his combinations were wrong, but it was always fun to watch him find his way through turbulent complications he created on the chess board. In 1956, Tal and Fischer slowly lifted their chess careers and began to fly. Bobby created his "game of the century" against Donald Byrne. Tal won the first seven games at the Student chess olympiad in ... Posted by farhadexists | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 08:17:21 Play online chess I hope so Message: Farhad ——— Chess: Cheeky opening play — The bold Armenian Levon Aronian is one to watch out for at the London Chess Classic, as this unusual game shows. The third London Chess Classic begins this weekend at Kensington Olympia. The world no 1 Magnus Carlsen is the favourite, but in such a short tournament, and with the soccer scoring system, there could be an upset. Watch out for the Armenian Levon Aronian. Off the board he's laid back, on the board he is often bold and original. Here, in a standard Queen's Gambit position, instead of developing his king's bishop and castling, Aronian has advanced his kingside pawns. How would you respond with Black? RB: Outrageous! To advance the kingside pawns so early in the game ... Posted by trond | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 08:19:16 Play online chess It's true :-D Message: ——— At times, young guns ignore famed coach — Being coached by former world chess champion Garry Kasparov might seem a straightforward matter. But it isn’t, for either the extraordinary mentor or his students of recent years: Norwegian chess phenom Magnus Carlsen, his disciple during 2009-10; and American standout Hikaru Nakamura. All three are extraordinarily independent. After notably improving his results under the Russian grandmaster, Carlsen pointedly explained that it was he — not Kasparov — who actually made the moves on the chess board. And Nakamura matter-of-factly admitted that he has several times ignored Kasparov’s advice — once choosing to play in a poker event rather than a chess competition — despite having a spectacular chess ... Posted by ketchuplover | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 08:27:14 Play online chess Message: ——— Inventive or Error Filled, Draws Have Their Charms — It is natural to focus on tournament games that ended decisively. After all, they determine the winners. But draws can be as exciting as any victory. They may be filled with entertaining errors on both sides. Or the play may be inspired and imaginative, with the competitors bringing out the best in each other. In the Tal Memorial chess tournament in Moscow, which ended on Friday, there was an unusual number of draws, and several of them were riveting. One of those games occurred in Round 5 between Sergey Karjakin and Peter Svidler. In the top diagram, Karjakin could have played 17 Ng4. Then, after 17 ... Qh4, Svidler would have had some compensation for his pawn deficit. Instead, Karjakin began a speculative ... Posted by trond | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 08:30:14 Play online chess The 4rth game ... with comments Message: "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 5.e3 Nbd7 6.Bd3 dxc4 7.Bxc4 b5 8.Be2 Bb7 9.O-O Be7 (He play 9...b4 in game 8 where he won with the 2 Knights versus a Rook.) 10.e4 b4 11.e5 bxc3 12.exf6 Bxf6 13.bxc3 c5 (I play this line many times with White.) 14.dxc5 Nxc5 (Some of you questioned my description of the game. Well, it is simple. Topalov is a head hunter. He goes all out for the win. He is a one man wrecking machine. If he succeeds, he wins. If he does not, he crashes and burns. Kramnik on the other hand is the minister of defense. It is much harder to describe a defensive victory. Ooooh, he found the best defensive move and made his opponent say: "Uncle". You are welcome to try to follow the game, analyze rapid games LIVE, type, and check ALL comments from the readers at the same time. I am only human :) Believe me, my style is closer to Kramnik so it is a lot easier for me to understand him than Topalov.) 15.Bb5+ Kf8 16.Qxd8 Rxd8 17.Ba3 Rc8 (This position is somewhat equal.) 18.Nd4 Be7 (I see this game going to the Blitz playoff.) 19.Rfd1 a6 (I like 19...Ne4 better.) 20.Bf1 Na4 21.Rb1 (A good move. White is slightly better. Black needs to be very careful due to the Rook on h8 being stuck. White's weakness is the c3 pawn. 21...Bd5 or Be4 are both possible.) 21...Be4 22.Rb3 (Now Black should be played to provoke c4. White is still slightly better in my opinion. The other option is Bxa3 then Nc5. White's position is certainly easier to play. Kramnik is doing the right thing in this game. He is trying cautiously, playing for 2 results.) 22...Bxa3 23.Rxa3 Nc5 24.Nb3 (Black SHOULD be able to hold if he does not do something crazy. Ke7 is must to wake the other Rook up from his nap.) 24...Ke7 (Some of you asked why the logo for this blog? :) Well, ask President Kirsan :) It's his logo. It looks like Bambi to me and not a baby antelope. Maybe because I have 2 young kids so I am more familiar with Bambi.) 25.Rd4 Bg6 26.c4 Rc6 (This is a mistake. 26...Nxb3 would have been better.) 27.Nxc5 Rxc5 28.Rxa6 Rb8 (White is now clearly better. 24.Rc6 was clearly a mistake.) 29.Rd1 (This is the kind of position where Kramnik is far superior to Topalov. I am not sure if Topalov can hold this in normal time control. Of course in rapid, anything can happen.) 29...Rb2 30.Ra7+ Kf6 (White is up a pawn but Black has some activities.) 31.Ra1 Rf5 32.f3 Re5 (Very strange plan for Topalov. White is clearly better.) 33.Ra3 Rc2 34.Rb3 Ra5 (This is very hard for Topalov to hold. Kramnik is marching on with his endgame technique.) 35.a4 Ke7 36.Rb5 Ra7 (a5 is coming. The match may end here.) 37.a5 Kd6 38.a6 Kc7 39.c5 (This position looks horrible for Black.) 39...Rc3 40.Raa5 Rc1 41.Rb3 Kc6 42.Rb6 Kc7 43.Kf2 Rc2+ 44.Ke3 (Setting a trap. If 44.Rxc5 then 45.Rb7 wins a Rook) 44...Rxc5?? 45.Rb7+ Game over! Black hung a Rook! (If Rxb7 then Rxc5+ followed by axb7.) A shocking ending to the most bizzare match! Unification has been achieved! Congratulations to Kramnik! Well done!" ——— Magnus Carlsen rises above the mediocrity at stuttering Tal Memorial — The world's top four chess grandmasters have gone head to head this week at the Tal Memorial in Moscow, and will do so again on 3-12 December in the London Classic at Olympia, where England's top trio will also compete. World No1 Magnus Carlsen, world chess champion Vishy Anand, Levon Aronian and Vlad Kramnik all have 2800+ ratings so the month's play could clarify who is top dog. Going into Friday's final round, Moscow has proved a damp squib. It is the strongest 10-player event in chess history, a planned tribute to the legendary attacking genius Mikhail Tal, but its standout feature is the excessive draw count, 80% after eight rounds. All six games among the 2800+ quartet have been halved. It is true that ... Posted by ccmcacollister | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 09:12:57 Play online chess What a coup ... Message: Posted by ganstaman | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 09:21:52 Play online chess Message: I was rooting for Topalov the whole way, but once it got to tiebreaks I wanted Kramnik to win. Now, at least half the chess world feels that the rapid tiebreaks are legit since they don't feel Kramnik's game 5 forfeit should have counted (though I still can't see why, if you don't show up for a game and don't protest it in time -- like right then instead of sitting in front of the toilet... -- you deserve your loss). Posted by rallyvincent | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 09:26:39 Play online chess Congrats to KramnikMessage: Rally V. Posted by zenbum | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 10:08:12 Play online chess Message: In the words of Mig Greengard: "I don't know if the better player won today. But looking back over the past few weeks I'd have to say that the better man certainly did." Topalov seems intelligent so maybe he'll get a clue and grow up a little. And fire Danailov. BTW according to the current FIDE rules, Topalov will not be invited to the WC Tourney in Mexico City next year. Before this match, I would have said that was silly and unfair. But now I have a new motto: BAN THE BRAT!! Posted by zenbum | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 10:26:01 Play online chess Message: "Topalov is the highest ranked player right now, and his past tournaments have shown that he is on fire." Kramnik's performance rating during this match was 2844, while Topalov managed to eke out a 2702 (-> chessbase.com. Perhaps Topalov has appeared to be "on fire" lately only because both Kramnik and Kasparov have been absent from the tournament scene. And of course, there are those who say that Topalov's recent meteoric rise is due to cheating. Historically, Kramnik definitely has the edge in their encounters. Now that Kramnik's illness seems to be in remission, maybe we'll see more of him. I would agree with you that Topalov has the more exciting playing style. I hope we can look forward to more games between them. And I hope that Topalov learns some manners. Posted by cep2eu | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 10:28:46 Play online chess I am happyMessage: Posted by ionadowman | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 12:26:16 Play online chess On balance...Message: Looking through the games, the most entertaining for me was the penultimate blitz game, ending in a win for Topalov. Great game! Posted by schaakhamster | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 23:36:02 Play online chess come on zenbumMessage: Posted by ionadowman | uskidscompute.com 10/13/2006 23:58:59 Play online chess I agree...Message: It would be interesting to see what a (more or less) impartial judge has to say about the quality of the games in this match. Was the play up to level to be expected of 2800-level players? The impression is one of Kramnik's consistency overcoming Topalov's inventiveness, but Kramnik wasn't so much more consistent, nor Topalov so much more inventive. One is inclined to hypothesize that, in general, match performances based on the moves actually played is - let's take a wild guess - about 2-300 ELO points less than the players are capable of in a different playing milieu. It will vary a bit, I dare say, depending on how one takes to matches. Because it varies, you may occasionally find that a weaker player will defeat a stronger in a match e.g. Capablanca-Alekhine, Alekhine-Euwe, 1935 (tho' admittedly Alekhine had a drinking problem which made it worse), and - let's get provocative - Tal-Botvinnik, 1961... There: that should provoke a lively correspondence... Cheers, Ion Posted by ccmcacollister | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 01:10:45 Play online chess ionadowman ...hmm,OK I'll bite on that offer :) Message: Don'cha think so? Besides rating has Kramnick in any way shown weaker!? Not head to head (fast or slow), nor vs the rest of the best. Granted everybody maybe played a little shakey at the start of the match. But even there Kramnick had the nerves, experience or something going for him. }8-) PS// It's hard to argue a Botvinnik match, when its been alleged Keres was told to throw games to him; and the Bronstein match !? Who knows, but ... it was very convenient to Tie it seems, after trailing. As much as I think Botvinnik Was a very strong player ... I can't seem to come around to believing no favors or favorites were played, imo. (Just look to the K-K matches later, where one has a high party member backing and the other a highup in the sports heirarchy ... or K vs The Other K, Korchnoi ... with the son arrested, perhaps beaten. Seem to recall it being something like that.) WEll you did ask for something lively :) And I think Botvinnik can be a lively one to really delve into here! Of course I am not laying any new allegations here as these things have all emerged from GM ranks, where I believe there has been an ongoing question, to some anyway, for sometime. From before his demise in fact. :) Posted by ccmcacollister | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 01:19:21 Play online chess PS/ Ion , I always have to wonder ...Message: or something on the order or narcotic analgesics to cover it; and what that does to concentration; yet the games he did play with such precision ... What If ? What if ... Posted by ganstaman | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 08:33:24 Play online chess Message: Yes, but there's a good explaination for Kramnik's great record vs. Topalov. Topalov peaked just recently, at least after 2000. And during that time, Kramnik was dealing with his illness and played less. I believe that this year to come will truly tell us which is the better player, now that both are in top form and ready to play the rest of the world. Another thing, Kramnik beat Kasparov in a match and has a good record vs. Kasparov. But it would be difficult to convince anyone that Kasparov is not still the best player in the world (or at least the best player from 1985 until he retired, maybe his time off since then has put him at number 2 or so...). That said, without Kasparov in the picture, Kramnik definitely deserves to be rated in the top three. Let's just hope that he tries to prove that he deserves to be number 1. An exciting year will follow. Posted by ccmcacollister | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 11:06:19 Play online chess ganstaman ... Message: But as far as what he should be Ranked; clearly Kramnick deserves ranked #1. He just proved it! I dont think he has to prove it again. Not for the now. Next year everone is older, healthy, sick, who knows. But clearly he earned the spot imo. Kasparov did not participate. If we are going to include him in speculations, well there is a reason he retired, so i doubt Kasparov considers himself the strongest now. But who can know. Should not Fischer be included then, who had the highest inflation adjusted Elo in history ? By such Korchnoi, Spassky, Karpov and others would be around this 2800 league I think. What I don't understand I guess is why you grant Kasparov status during absenteeism, but deny Kramnick the same tho he has been much less absent :) Not even retired. I just want to see Kramnick get his due, and right now he has defeated the strongest players (who Play, anyway) in the world, or defeated the one who did defeat them. I dont see him as Champ beyond another cycle. Two at most. With any health issue that is not purely acute. So of course, expect Topalov to exceed him by then and actually several others. But this is his time again Today. 3 cheers for Kramnick! }8-) PS AND who knows what breakthru' s may be made in restroom technology by then! :))) Posted by zenbum | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 11:46:54 Play online chess New RatingsMessage: How has this match affected Kramnik's & Topalov's ratings? Posted by mattdw | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 13:01:15 Play online chess zenbumMessage: Kramnilk = 2783 Topalov = 2770 ...but that's the first time I've tried to do that so I might have messed it up. :) Posted by mattdw | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 13:03:17 Play online chess ...edit!Message: I knew I should have checked my working before I posted! ;) Posted by mattdw | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 13:07:12 Play online chess ...double edit!Message: Kramnik = 2780 Topalov = 2776 Someone who has done this before should probably double check! (..it is a K-value of 16 for 2400+ isn't it?) Posted by zenbum | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 13:09:40 Play online chess toilet winMessage: Posted by ionadowman | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 14:17:42 Play online chess ccmcacollister...Message: Having read the Larry Evans (?) article you directed me to (pvt. msg.) does lead one to wonder... 1) First he says that the 2 non-Soviet players (ahead of the game!) suspected the Soviet players would conspire to make life easy for themselves. Let's see. The 5 Keres-Botvinnik games were all decisive, going 4-1 in Botvinnik's favour. 2) Ah-Ha! Keres must have thrown some of them. Well, it is true Keres lost 4 before winning one. But the losses went for 58, 23, 72, and 42 moves. Doesn't look all that much like thrown games. We could look at the game moves, of course. And why didn't he throw some against Smyslov? Maybe he did - just the one. Two wins and 2 draws were the other results. 3) It's always possible Smyslov and Botvinnik took a friendlier attitude towards each other - only 1 decisive game out of 5 there. 4) As for Reuben Fine's pulling out - I have a feeling he had more or less been gradually withdrawing from chess since his losing out to Keres in the 1938 AVRO Tournament, and to Reshevsky in the US Champs. (I reckon Fine's book "The Psychology of the Chess Player" was his revenge on the game, but then Freudian psychologists of his era seem to be characterised by a peculiarly jaundiced view of humanity at large...). 5) I always understood that in the mid-1970s FIDE tried very hard to incorporate Fischer's ideas in the WCC matches, except that the "First to 10" seemed far too excessive (In discussions, Fischer was talking in eager anticipation of matches lasting 6 months and more, a prospect Karpov found appalling. I think he was right). With Fischer it was all or nothing, so he got the nothing. Well, it didn't take long for the stupidity of the "first to x wins" format to reveal itself (as I was pretty sure it would - you would have thought the 1927 match had never happened...). It would be interesting to discover what Karpov's state of health was even, say, a third of the way through the match. I can think of no other explanation for his failure to knock off the match that had begun so well for him, and rather, to wait for Kasparov's mistakes. All credit to Kasparov, though, for his Fabian strategy, avoiding defeat until Karpov should collapse. At the beginning of that match, Karpov was by far the stronger player; by its premature end, Kasparov had superseded him... Weird. 6) I have no comment on the Calvo affair, nor much on Campomanes, except to say the kinds of corruption being described is also to be found in the other Olympic movement. Americans blame themselves for their naivity in the dealings with FIDE. I find that very hard to believe. I guess you can always say that if you are overreached by someone as corrupt, but smarter. (I seem to recall that Mr Evans - if he did write the article - does not overlook sharp practice in the USCF, neither. Good on him!) 7) Back to this particular match: my comment - hypothesis - was really that matches reduce each player's playing standard, how much or little depending on the relative degree to which they are ill-suited to matches. If Kramnik dropped 200 ELO (to c.2550) and Topalov 300 ELO (to c.2500), say (putting rather arbitrary numbers to the idea, and bearing in mind ELO's system is relative, not absolute) we wouldn't actually know anything about it except that Kramnik won a close match. Could we in fact find out whether something like this actually happened? The number, type and degree of errors might be an indication. One approach might be similar to tests of one's playing ability by playing through a master game, seeing what you would play before revealing the master's moves. If, however, there is in fact no way my hypothesis can be tested, then that's where it remains. And maybe it doesn't really matter at that, if one thinks matches are the best means to decide the World Chess Championship. Posted by ganstaman | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 20:46:56 Play online chess RatingsMessage: Craig: I think I may have been slightly misunderstood (or I'm the one misunderstanding). Kramnik has a great record vs Topalov, but I think that this is because most of their games were played when Topalov was a weaker player. They have played less games when Topalov soared in ability, and those games may be tainted by Kramnik's illness. We now finally have both of them healthy and in top form, which is why I think that any comparison between the two should start now. Another issue is match vs tournament. Kramnik beat Kasparov in a match, but Kasparov was still winning the tournaments after that. Kramnik is definitely a world class player, but Kasparov is a legend. It may seem contradictory, but I feel Kasparov is the better player even though Kramnik beat him in a match. I'm not saying Topalov is a legend at all; he's likely near Kramnik's status. But I feel that even though Kramnik beat Topalov in a match, he's not necessarily the better player. Posted by ionadowman | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 21:53:20 Play online chess I incline to ganstaman's view...Message: Over the years, the title "world champion" - in any sporting field - has, for mine, lost a good deal of its lustre. The Kiwis, New Zealand's national Rugby League team, is the world champion. But Australia's Kangaroo remain No. 1, crushing the Kiwis earlier in the year by a huge margin (50-12, I think). England won the Rugby Union World Cup in 2003, and has been dismembered by antipodean sides ever since. As for the Soccer World Cup, don't get me started... Chess champions like Spassky and Petrosian would content themselves with thirds and fourths in tournament play; Botvinnik rarely played in them at all; Fischer never once sat at the board as World Champion. Even in this match, Kramnik didn't really demonstrate a real superiority over Topalov - much less did Topalov over his adversary. So ... what does the title mean, exactly? Unusually, Karpov and Kasparov were respectively worthy world champions, setting the standard for others to surpass if they could. But the place to surpass them was in tournaments, not matches. As Kasparov continued to win tournaments after his title loss argues that he remained No. 1 - though I seem to recall Kramnik was taking out his fair share by 2000... I'm rambling, amn't I ... damn... Posted by far1ey | uskidscompute.com 10/14/2006 23:40:52 Play online chess Message: Posted by mattdw | uskidscompute.com 10/15/2006 02:04:10 Play online chess ganstamanMessage: The expected performance of both players in each game: (let Ex=Topalov's expected score and Ey=Kramnik's, Rx=Topalov's rating and Ry=Kramnik's.): Ex = 1/(1+(10^((Ry-Rx)/400))) = 1/(1+(10^((2743-2813)/400))) = 0.5994 Ey = 1/(1+(10^((Rx-Ry)/400))) = 1/(1+(10^((2813-2743)/400))) = 0.4006 (or just 1-0.5994) Letting the new ratings be R'x and R'y: R'x = Rx+16(6.5-Ex*15) = 2773 (Topalov) R'y = Ry+16(8.5-Ey*15) = 2782 (Kramnik) Posted by bogg | uskidscompute.com 10/15/2006 07:07:05 Play online chess mattdw Message: CTC (Bogg) Posted by bogg | uskidscompute.com 10/15/2006 08:39:38 Play online chess mattdw Message: CTC (Bogg) Posted by mattdw | uskidscompute.com 10/15/2006 09:45:59 Play online chess bogg + ganstamanMessage: Posted by bogg | uskidscompute.com 10/15/2006 14:21:03 Play online chess mattdw Message: CTC (Bogg) |