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| From | Message | Posted by masros
uskidscompute.com
9/20/2006
07:33:18
Play online chess |  Subject: Chess Puzzle
Message:
This is an old and popular chess puzzle that baffled me for years.Does anyone know the answer??.Well,I know the answer.
A chess game begins with 1.e4 and ends in the fifth move with knight takes rook mate. Reconstruct the game.
| Posted by yanm
uskidscompute.com
9/20/2006
08:19:12
Play online chess | hmmm
Message:
In six moves is easy, for example:
1.e5 a6
2.Qh5 b6
3.Nf3 c6
4.Ne5 h6
5.Nxf7 g5
6.Nxg8#
Final position
Now, it seems quite difficult to do the same in just five moves. I guess that black need to be more helpfull than just 5....g5
| Posted by ganstaman
uskidscompute.com
9/20/2006
08:32:13
Play online chess | actually
Message:
It's white who gets mated...
Enjoy.
———
President of World Chess Federation Responds to Readers’ Questions — The president of the World Chess Federation says he hopes to open a chess academy in New York City in the near future and double the number of people who play chess worldwide. And, yes, he believes that the game was invented by extraterrestrials. Those are some of the comments from Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, 48, president of the chess federation — which is also known by the acronym FIDE for its name in French, Fédération Internationale des Échecs — who last week responded to questions submitted by Gambit readers. On Sept. 29, Mr. Ilyumzhinov was re-elected to a four-year term at the Chess Olympiad held in Khanty-Mansiysk, Russia; he has led the federation since 1995. Though Mr. Ilyumzhinov ...
Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com
9/20/2006
09:39:15
Play online chess |
Message:
Hmm, I can't get it in less than 6 yet, this is tricky!
My best effort so far:
1. e4 Nc6
2. e5 d6
3. exd6 exd6
4. a4 Ne5
5. Ra3 Qe7
6. Rf3 Nxf3#
..or much less pretty smothed mate type effort:
1. e4 Nc6
2. h4 a6
3. Rh3 Ne5
4. Rf3 a5
5. Ne2 a4
6. g3 Nxf3# 0-1
I'm sure there must be a more constuctive thing to do with 3 of black's moves...
———
Three Tie for First in Tal Memorial, but Only Two Are Co-Champions — Levon Aronian of Armenia and Sergey Karjakin of Russia were the joint winners of the Tal Memorial chess tournament in Moscow, which ended Sunday. Shakhriyar Mamedyarov of Azerbaijan tied for first with Aronian and Karjakin, but their tie-breaker scores were better than his — and identical to each other as they had the same results against the same opponents. Aronian, Karjakin and Mamedyarov each scored 5.5 points in the nine-round chess event. Mamedyarov was the sole leader at the start of the last round, but he lost to Boris Gelfand of Israel, allowing Aronian and Karjakin, who both drew their final games, to overtake him. Alexander Grischuk of Russia, Hikaru Nakamura of ...
Posted by ganstaman
uskidscompute.com
9/20/2006
12:39:26
Play online chess |
Message:
I hope I'm not giving away too much when I respond to:
"I'm sure there must be a more constuctive thing to do with 3 of black's moves... "
with: I'm sure there are more constructive things to do with white's moves...
For the record, I saw this puzzle before and failed miserably. I was even told what the last move was (not just NxR#, but the actual move in algebraic notation). I think that only adds to the fustration level, though.
———
Under a New Scoring System, Fewer Ties and Drawn Games — A two-year-old scoring system may be the solution to two problems that have long bedeviled chess. One is how to break ties at the end of chess tournaments. Complicated rules based on opponents’ scores have been used, as have tie-breaker games of varying lengths, but both have drawbacks. The second problem involves games that quickly end in draws because the players do not want to battle it out or can earn more prize money by drawing a game. (In some chess tournaments, a draw at the end guarantees each player a share of the pot.) One cure for prearranged or short draws was first used in Sofia, Bulgaria, a few years ago. It is a rule that prohibits chess players from offering a draw or ...
Posted by ionadowman
uskidscompute.com
9/21/2006
01:33:48
Play online chess | Confirmation please!
Message:
After 1.e4, is it White to mate on move 5, or Black?
I've nutted out a 5-mover for Black, but the first move of the game isn't 1.e4:
1.f3 Nc6 2.d3 Nd4 3.Be3 Nf5 4.Kf2 Ng3 5.Qe1 Nxa1#
w
Quite a tasty solution, as the only Black piece to move is the Black Queen's Knight.
Are we close?
Cheers,
Ion
———
Magnus Carlsen shocks FIDE by withdrawing from elimination series — Magnus Carlsen has shocked chess by withdrawing from the global body FIDE's elimination series to decide the 2012 world title challenger. The 19-year-old Norwegian was the favourite to qualify to meet India's Vishy Anand, the reigning chess champion. Carlsen cited as factors in his decision FIDE's frequent rule changes during the qualifying process, the short four-game quarter and semi-finals played in quick succession, and the holder's privilege to be excused until the final match. He proposed that future chess championships should be decided by elite tournaments of several chess players. His withdrawal brought a mixed reaction from grandmasters and fans. Some applauded his principled ...
Posted by bunta
uskidscompute.com
9/21/2006
06:26:00
Play online chess | help mate
Message:
Is this a help mate puzzle?
———
Aronian Holds Lead at Tal Memorial, Chased by Many — Levon Aronian of Armenia continues to hold the lead of the elite Tal Memorial in Moscow through five rounds, but his lead is not secure — a number of chess players are close behind. Aronian has 3.5 points (wins are worth a point, draws are half a point), followed by Shakhriyar Mamedyarov of Azerbaijan, Sergey Karjakin of Ukraine, Wang Hao of China, Hikaru Nakamura of the United States and Alexander Grischuk of Russia, who each have 3 points. Vladimir Kramnik of Russia, the defending champion in the event, has 2.5 points, Pavel Eljanov of Ukraine and Boris Gelfand of Israel each have 1.5, and Alexei Shirov of Spain is in last place with 1 point. In each of the first three rounds of the chess tournament, there ...
Posted by ganstaman
uskidscompute.com
9/21/2006
06:29:43
Play online chess | Help mate
Message:
It's a help mate.
| Posted by ganstaman
uskidscompute.com
9/21/2006
07:30:53
Play online chess | wait a moment
Message:
Just want to make sure: helpmate simply means that both sides work towards the same goal, and so the moves don't have to really make sense (ie, white will purposefully lose this game, and you really can't justify his moves in any other way), right?
| Posted by ionadowman
uskidscompute.com
9/21/2006
13:13:08
Play online chess | Correct, ganstaman...
Message:
...In a helpmate, the 'losing side' cooperates in being mated. There's a famous Sam Loyd puzzle in which stalemate is achieved in 13 moves from the game's starting position. Obviously both sides must cooperate to achieve this 'help-stalemate'.
By the way, there is a sui-mate type of puzzle in which one side forces the other to deliver checkmate. This obviously isn't the case here.
Naturally, masros's puzzle has to be a helpmate.
Here's a simple 'helpmate' to illustrate the point:
w
White to play and helpmate in 1. That is, White plays first, and Black delivers mate in reply.
I am still not quite sure which side is being helpmated in masros's puzzle, though. I have a feeling it has to be White, Black having otherwise only 4 moves to work with.
| Posted by ganstaman
uskidscompute.com
9/21/2006
15:01:59
Play online chess | ionadowman
Message:
Thanks. Read the third post in this thread (it's small, so don't miss it) :)
| Posted by ionadowman
uskidscompute.com
9/21/2006
17:18:54
Play online chess | Yes, I saw that ...
Message:
... But I still wasn't quite sure. It does give us an extra ply to work with!
My investigations into this puzzle yielded one interesting fact: From the starting position, the shortest mate by a knight is just 3 moves, viz: 1.e4 Nc6 2.g4 Nd4 3.Ne2 Nf3#
w
It also turns out there are zillions of ways White can in 6 moves, beginning 1.e4 and delivering mate with 6.NxR#. One is a variation on the 5-mover I offered earlier:
1.e4 f6 2.Nc3 d6 3.Nd5 Be6 4.Nf4 Kf7 5.Ng6 Qe8 6.Nxh8#
Here's another, with the BK on g6:
1.e4 f6 2.d3 Nh6 3.Nf3 Kf7 4.Ng5+ Kg6 5.Nf7 Qe8 6.Nxh8#
w
What about delivering a mate on a square other than h8?
1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Be7 3.Nf3 Kf8 4.Ng5 Qe8 5.Qxh7 Rxh7 6.Nxh7#
w
And now, folks, for something completely different:
1.e4 c5 2.Qh5 h6 3.Qe5 h5 4.Nc3 Rh6 5.Nb5 Rd6 6.Nxd6#
w
Unfortunately, none of these 6-movers seems to offer much insight into how the game might be 1-ply shorter (i.e. Black delivering mate on move 5).
Fascinating.
| Posted by bunta
uskidscompute.com
9/22/2006
00:20:12
Play online chess | I have a helpmate
Message:
I have a helpmate puzzle, it was composed by a guy called Justin Tan, he has a fide about 2200+ or so and is an Australian player, I think he quit now. But anyway, I will ask my friend for the puzzle, its pretty hard to see the helpmate involved.
| Posted by far1ey
uskidscompute.com
9/22/2006
18:40:58
Play online chess | Promote?
Message:
I do not know the answer to the puzzle and have been thinking alot about it. Just wondering if anyone has thought of marching a pawn down and promoting to a knight to give mate?
| Posted by jjw109
uskidscompute.com
9/22/2006
20:21:50
Play online chess | white makes move for black
Message:
Great puzzle! Unfortunately like many of these they require patzer moves (which can make them difficult for advanced-level players because those moves are contrary to their general play).
I find that with puzzles like this the key is that one player’s move effectively makes a move for the opponent, which is exactly the case here. I therefore look for the “longer” easier solutions first and then try to reduce the ply.
White mate on move 6 has many solutions as others have pointed out. This is an 11-ply solution, 6 moves for white, 5 for black. It literally takes black five moves to get in position to be mated. A 9-ply solution (5 W, 4 B moves) ain’t gonna happen—just not enough time to get in position.
Thus, black must make the mate. The easy solution takes 6 moves for both White and Black (12-ply), e.g., 1. e4 Nc6, 2. h4 Nd4, 3. Rh3 a5, 4. g4 a4, 5. Rf3 a3, 6. Ne2 Nxf3#. Black moves 3, 4, and 5 are nothing more than stall moves—it is white that has to get in position for this mate (the BN can effectively get to the mating square in three moves, but white takes longer to get in position for a move 5 mate).
Note that white effectively needs 5 moves to get set up for mate in the above example after the initial 1. e4 move; thus 6 total in the solution above. This suggests to me that the e4 pawn is key to the solution in 10 ply rather than 12 ply (beyond the fact that e4 “wastes” a move and opens a flight square to e2). All too often in puzzles like this a move by one player effectively makes a move simultaneously for the other. That is exactly the case here.
The pawn at e4 can be removed easily by black’s kingside N for a final mate at h1. Thus removal of that pawn opens a half-file direct to the K, and if the black Q can get in the half file she can give check, pushing the K to f2 (in position of mate by Nxh1, which note also would cover the g3 flight square). The black Q in the half-file would also cover potential flight squares of e3, e2, and a return to e1.
Problem is that the pawn at e7 is in the way, but this isn't a problem if the White Q takes it--White makes a “move” for black by removing the piece. Thus the ply is reduced and mate can happen in 5.
1. e4 Nf6
2. f3 Nxe4
3. Qe2 Ng3
4. Qxe7+ Qxe7+
5. Kf2 Nxh1#
| Posted by ionadowman
uskidscompute.com
9/23/2006
01:37:41
Play online chess | Sweet...
Message:
... I just couldn't think of a way to clear the e-file (or any file come to that), or even figure out how 1.e4 was going to be essential to the solution (which clearly it is). A very nice solution. Thanks, jjw109!
By the way, I did consider the possibility of a pawn promotion, but that takes all of Black's moves.
Cheers,
Ion
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