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Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

8/24/2006
15:22:05

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Subject: GK Forum v Fritz: Round 1 - Page 5

Message:
Current position:


It looks like f4 is the favoured move but I'll wait until tomorrow to make a move.

Posted by ganstaman
uskidscompute.com

8/24/2006
16:40:08

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Message:
Where did page 4 go?!?!

Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

8/25/2006
04:55:28

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Message:
There were two page 3s by accident, the second page 3 was in fact page 4, I made a mistake in the last title. So this is actually the 5th page, if that makes any sense! 202 (make that 203) posts on this topic so far! :)
———
Soviet Union’s Fall Gave Birth to a Host of New Rivalries — The Soviet Union dominated chess for so many years partly because it could tap the talent pool in such a vast area. But after the Soviet system collapsed two decades ago, many of those chess players began playing for the independent countries that rose from the ashes — nations that quickly assumed their own place among the chess elite. In the World Chess Federation’s current list, which is based on players’ individual rankings, Russia is No. 1, and three other former Soviet republics are in the top 10: Ukraine at No. 2; Armenia, No. 6; and Azerbaijan, No. 10. Russia and Ukraine have often jockeyed for first place in international chess competitions. But Ukraine was dealt a blow in 2009 when Sergey Karjakin, its ...
Posted by far1ey
uskidscompute.com

8/25/2006
05:12:21

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Message:
f4
———
On Chess: Cranky Korchnoi was dubbed ‘devil’ — In 1980, I made a venturesome journey to the Soviet Union. Treated with a guarded friendliness, I became the first American chess writer to interview the young world chess champion, Anatoly Karpov. I also had a chance to converse with a couple of Soviet officials in the offices of the storied Moscow Chess Club. The discussion inevitably came around to noted grandmaster Viktor Korchnoi, who had defected in 1976 during a chess tournament in Amsterdam. My hosts passionately inveighed against him, contending that he was a difficult person who was often referred to as “the devil” or “angry Korchnoi.” Was it true? Absolutely. Few people — including him — would dispute the notion. In fact, he ...
Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

8/25/2006
09:06:12

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f4 it is.

Message:
We have about 3 people preferring f4 and no one else preferring an alternative, so we may as well play 10. f4. I'll just go and feed it to Fritz.
———
Peter Svidler plays fast and loose in bid to become world chess champion — The World Cup final between Russia's Peter Svidler and Alex Grischuk resumes on Saturday morning with game two starting at 10am BST. It is live on the internet, and I have been watching the games. It's an armchair viewer's delight, and the only snag is the risk that both games – the bronze medal match between Vasily Ivanchuk and Ruslan Ponomariov, both of Ukraine, is also on – could end in quick draws. The chess matches are best of four, with speed tie-breaks if 2-2, and Grischuk has a penchant for blitz. Svidler won Friday's first game as Black. The six-time Russian chess champion, 35, has a different lifestyle from most elite grandmasters. He has no full-time coach, spends less time on chess, and ...
Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

8/25/2006
09:37:32

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And Fritz plays...

Message:
Maybe a bit unexpectedly:
10...Qh6

Thus, so far:
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 Bc5
5. Be3 Qf6
6. c3 Ng-e7
7. Bc4 Ne5
8. Be2 d5
9. O-O O-O
10. f4 Qh6



Analysis board available here: board #5448348

I'm thinking Qd2 to defend the Bishop so that the knight on e5 is no longer safe, I'll have a longer look at it in a moment to see if I change my mind. I should mention that I am going to be dissappearing for an unspecified length of time as I'm moving house tomorrow - I think I may be back online within a day but there is a possibility that there may be a few problems. If I seem to have been gone for a bit long then someone else who has Fritz could make the move if I'm holding the game up.

FEN template:
r1b2rk1/ppp1nppp/7q/2bpn3/3NPP2/2P1B3/PP2B1PP/RN1Q1RK1 W - 0 1
———
Battle of the sexes — The Chess Club and Scholastic Center of St. Louis is hosting an event this week that has captured the interest of the chess community. Kings versus Queens: A Battle of the Sexes pits two teams against one another, one made up of five men, the other of five women. The total prize fund is more than $50,000 as chess players compete for individual prizes, and included in the prize fund is a special bonus for the winning team: $20,000! This is no normal chess event. Not only are five of the world's top female players participating, but we are playing a unique variant of regular chess. Each day there are two games, one game of regular rapid chess (each side gets 25 minutes for the whole game) and ...
Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

8/29/2006
09:04:03

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Message:
Any thoughts?
———
Chess: in search of zugzwang — How to break up this static but firm defence? Bobby Fischer shows the way. Classic Bobby Fischer victories often involve the elimination of all counterplay before going in for the kill. The only problem with closing down your opponent's options is that it can limit yours too. Here White is very passively placed, but his defences are still holding. How can Black make progress? RB: In a closed – locked! – position like this, the answer to the question how does one side make progress invariably involves one of two things – a sacrifice or zugzwang. I'm looking for a sacrifice first (easier on the brain cells), the idea being to give up a minor chess piece for a couple of pawns, break up White's defences and ...
Posted by mossberg4570
uskidscompute.com

8/29/2006
09:39:17

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11. Nd2

Message:
Your house moving go smoothly?

Lets look at what Qh6 does.

1. It threatens Ng4, where Qxh2 is mate.
2. It pins the pawn against the bishop.
3. It frees the f pawn to advance.

So what to do?

Qd2 unpins the bishop, but what does fritz play?

11. Qd2 Ng4
12. Bxg4 Bxg4

And then what? We would lose the e pawn unfavorably, while trying to defend against the kingside attack. Perhaps, then:

13. f5 Qh4

Does 14. Bg5 adequetely defend?

14. Bg5 Qh5 15. Bxe7 Bxe7

Anyone see anything I'ved missed? I don't like this position at all. It's becoming increasingly difficult to drive the queen away from the kingside.

So how about 11. Nd2?

Threatens Nb3, attacking the bishop on c5.
Defends e4, a square we currently do NOT control (although we have occupied it).
Works towards connecting the rooks (the queen's rook looks like it wants to be on f1, after the king's rook moves up to f2, don't you think?).

So 11. Nd2 and fritz plays what?

He doesn't have to move his Ne5 just yet. He might want to avoid the gain of tempo after Nb3 by playing Bb6 now. I don't see much else. Black's sort of in a wait-and-see position.

so 11. Nd2 Bb6

And things are MUCH calmer than in the Qd2 line. How about:
12. Rf2 [which somewhat forces black to do something about that knight... fxe5 Qxe3 is now no longer check] dxe4
13. Nxe4 Nc6, perhaps

And we certainly have an initiative. Bc4 can follow, the queen can go to e2 or b3, and we can double our rooks on the f-file.

Any other candidate moves?

Until further analysis, Nd2 looks best.









Posted by bittersweet_ballad
uskidscompute.com

8/30/2006
01:24:48

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Message:
Bd2 looks good to me!

Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

8/30/2006
03:27:34

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Message:
Thanks mossberg4570, I'm having a good look at your suggestions/analysis, replies will be short though as I'm having to use the on-screen keyboard. bittersweet_ballad, why do you like Bd2?

Posted by bittersweet_ballad
uskidscompute.com

8/30/2006
06:28:56

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That should have been Qd2

Message:
mossberg, in the line you gave: 14. Bg5 Qh5 15. Bxe7 Bxe7

I don't think 15.Bxe7 is a good move. It allows black to bring is bishop in, if he wills, to the c1-h6 diagonal. If white plays 15.h3, however, things would look good. White would win the bishop (note that it has no escape), at the expense of weaking the position around his king. What we have to think about is whether the mateial advantage outweighs the risk of a weakened king. I think it does - with the possible exchange on e7 coming in at some time, white can easily deal with any threats the black queen and bishop (the only 2 active pieces black would have) could pose the white king.

11.Nd2 looks good to me as well, but I think that Qd2 is more active, and with black's queen seemingly misplaced, I would say it's the better of the two. Developing the N may come up as a problem later on - but it could always come into play through a3. If black were to exchange on a3 to spoil white's pawns, white would be left with a strong bishop pair, in a game with open lines.

Posted by mossberg4570
uskidscompute.com

8/30/2006
07:50:12

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I should have mentioned

Message:
That I didn't like....

11. Qd2 Ng4
12. Bxg4 Bxg4
13. f5 Qh5
14. Bg5 Qh4
15. h3 f6

...either.

I just don't like our position after 11. Qd2 Ng4. I think it's better to play a quieter line (Nd2) that leads to a more substantial plus for us (a strong initiative, gain of tempo, more coordinated pieces, etc), rather than allow black to attack on our kingside, in the hope that we can fend it off.



Posted by sough
uskidscompute.com

8/30/2006
09:58:59

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Message:
Qd2 doesn't look good to me and I agree with moss

Posted by thumper
uskidscompute.com

9/09/2006
01:52:31

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I'm with Moss, Nd2

Message:
We need to get some beef over to the King side before too much trouble starts, the knight can get there if he leaves now. :) Mobilize the cav


Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

9/09/2006
11:52:34

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Back!

Message:
House moving is over now, settling in is in process now :)

Another possible line for the Qd2 that I've seen in a couple of DBs is something like:
11. Qd2 Ng4
12. Bxg4 Bxg4
13. e5

What would the purpose of this be?

I'm still in slight preference of Qd2 but a 3-2 majortity favours Nd2, so we will probably go with that.

Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

9/09/2006
11:55:02

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Message:
...also, what about?
11. Qd2 Ng4
12. Bxg4 Bxg4
13. f5 Qh5
14. Bf2



Posted by loreta
uskidscompute.com

9/09/2006
12:42:36

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Two quick ideas

Message:
To test: 14. f6 and 14. Nf5

Posted by loreta
uskidscompute.com

9/09/2006
12:44:31

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Sorry

Message:
I had in my head: 13. f5 Qh7 14. f6 and 13. f6

Posted by ccmcacollister
uskidscompute.com

9/12/2006
06:52:56

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A Short "HI"

Message:
Just dropping in to say; There's a precendent for the Bc4 Ne5 Be2 maneuver right from GK ranks. This game by yelenadembo that I stumbled on just yesterday.
-> www.chessgames.com

Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

9/12/2006
08:07:12

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Message:
Hi craig! It's good to see that idea in action - though with a slightly different board position. I think we better play Nd2 just to get things moving again, I'll leave it until tonight then I will make the move.

Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

9/13/2006
02:12:51

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And Fritz plays...

Message:
11...Bb6

Thus, so far:
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 Bc5
5. Be3 Qf6
6. c3 Ng-e7
7. Bc4 Ne5
8. Be2 d5
9. O-O O-O
10. f4 Qh6
11. Nd2 Bb6



Analysis board available here: board #5448348

Hmm, I wasn't expecting that! Why do you think it played Bb6? Advance of c-pawn possibly?

Posted by mossberg4570
uskidscompute.com

9/13/2006
18:07:42

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I expected Bb6

Message:
My given line for Nd2 went:

11. Nd2 Bb6
12. Rf2

I still stand by Rf2. Black can play dxe or Nc6 and we can have a lively debate on our next move.

Long term, here, I'd want to open the f-file OR advance g4, g5, h4 and finally f5, while doubling rooks on the f file. Our queen looks to be itching for c2 or d3, depending on whether the d file opens.

Rf2 works towards these goals.

I expect a human to play dxe after Rf2, but fritz'll probably play Nc6.

12 Rf2 dxe4
13 Nxe4 and what can black do?

I can see N5c6, Nd5 or N5g3. None of these moves present any problem. Anything else? I suppose c5, although Nc2 (after c5) defends the bishop on e3.

I hate our position after 13. fxe5 Qxe3, so let's forget that.

12 Rf2 N5c6

We'd have, that I see:

The obvious exchanges Nxc6 followed by Bxb6, which weaken our position.
exd5, which allows black to post that knight on d5... not a good thing.
e5, which just blunders the pawn away because of Nxd5.

And a bunch of other moves that accomplish little (Bb5, for instance).

I like 13. Qa4 or 13. Qc2, linking the rooks.

13. Qa4 prevents 13...dxe4 because of:

13. Qa4 dxe4 14. Nxc6 Nxc6 15. Bxb6 axb6 [cxb6 16. Nxe4 and we have no worries]
16. Qxb8 e3 17. Rf3 exd2 18. Rf2 Qe6 19. Rd1 Rd8 20. Qa4 Qe3 21. Qc2

We get the pawn back and, even though it'll be a sharp position, doesn't look bad. We're even up the exchange.

so what's black got after 12. Rf2 Nc6 13. Qa4? Let's see....

Ok, so I see 13... Re8, which threatens dxe4 (since dxe4 Nxc6 can now be answered with Bxe3, where Nxe7+ can be answered with Rxe7... the reason why dxe4 Nxc6 Bxe3 didn't work before... Nxe7+ lost a piece after Nxc8).

But 14. e5 (after 13. Qa4 Re8) works. 14... Nxe5 15. Qxe8#

So Qa4 works fine.

Someone else can look over Qc2. There. A glimpse of how I treat a real CC game.

Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

9/14/2006
14:53:29

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Thanks

Message:
Thanks Mossberg that was very insightful, I will make my best attempt at doing the same for Qc2 on Monday (I'm going home for my Birthday tomorrow). Qa4 does look pretty good, I will do my best with Qc2 and hopefully we can compare the moves and see which looks the most promising.

Posted by b123
uskidscompute.com

9/26/2006
08:39:09

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GameOver

Message:
Is this threat stopped? I really liked your analysis!

Greetings

Bart

Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

9/27/2006
01:52:55

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b123

Message:
I'm not sure about everyone else but things have just been too busy for me lately, I really need to cut down the number of games I've got going for a start. The problem is that with the amount of time I have spare at the moment I wouldn't be able to do analysis to the same quality given by others so far and I wouldn't want to ruin the game because of that! b123, you're more than welcome to conduct some analysis of your own to try to get things moving again - I should always be able to do the Fritz part, but just not necessarily much else at the moment unfortunately.

Posted by far1ey
uskidscompute.com

9/27/2006
03:49:10

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Message:
What about N2f3? If dxe then Nxe5 while Nxf3 and Bxf3 when it all looks ok.

Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

9/28/2006
15:36:33

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N2f3.

Message:
Looks like it could get a bit complicated, the problem is that it takes away our bishop's control of g4 so if black replied Ng4 there would be a mate threat on h2 & an attack on our undefended bishop on e3, with the only (usable) defender of h2 being the knight on f3 which could soon be lost after dxe4 brings another attacker to bear down it attempting to remove the guard.

Posted by far1ey
uskidscompute.com

9/29/2006
17:31:34

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Very well

Message:
Very well then, I guess I'll side with mossberg4570 and go with Rf2.

Just another note: WHERE IS EVERYONE!?!?!?!?

Posted by jsemmens
uskidscompute.com

10/02/2006
20:01:37

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Message:
I'll agree with Rf2, there seems to be little advantages to N2f3, there are no major threats by the knight, and it may just allow the comp to secure the f file. Rf2 seems to be a good planning move.

Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

10/03/2006
02:28:02

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Message:
Ok, I'll put Rf2 in if we have no further input today.

Posted by mattdw
uskidscompute.com

10/04/2006
12:39:27

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Rf2 it is...

Message:
...and Fritz plays:
12...dxe4

Thus, so far:
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 exd4
4. Nxd4 Bc5
5. Be3 Qf6
6. c3 Ng-e7
7. Bc4 Ne5
8. Be2 d5
9. O-O O-O
10. f4 Qh6
11. Nd2 Bb6
12. Rf2 dxe4



Analysis board available here: board #5448348

FEN template: r1b2rk1/ppp1nppp/1b5q/4n3/3NpP2/2P1B3/PP1NBRPP/R2Q2K1 b - - 0 3

Nxe4 looks fine to me...

Posted by b123
uskidscompute.com

10/08/2006
05:46:37

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13. Nxe4

Message:
Recapture with knight. Don't see a real threathing move by black coming.
Continuing with Qd2, preparing Rf1. Be aware of a possible discovered attack at e4 after ... Re8.

Just my two cents.

Bart

Posted by jsemmens
uskidscompute.com

10/11/2006
13:55:34

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Message:
Agreed, although I think the queen is better off on d3.

Posted by chilliman
uskidscompute.com

10/27/2006
21:26:57

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Message:
13. Nxe4