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| Posted by youngglor uskidscompute.com 10/16/2003 10:33:51 play online chess |  Subject: Humans vs ComputersMessage: Hey all, im just trying to start out a post about this subject that I recently read at chessbase.com... Computers have been getting stronger every year...who will win this fight??? All opinions are welcome, please post your thoughts. Cheers |
| Posted by silverwolfwsc uskidscompute.com 10/16/2003 12:10:01 play online chess | computers Message: humans arent advancing at the same rate as computers. As computers will continue to advance, and search deeper into each position, they will eventually find a forced win much earlier than a human opponent. I dont think it will be happening in the next few years, but probably within the decade. |
| Posted by wizard_of_odd uskidscompute.com 10/16/2003 14:08:30 play online chess | Humans vs Computers?? Message: This is really a nonissue. Computers can beat almost any human alive. They will always be winning this fight. A computer is a tool that does what human programmers tell it to do. For this reason, I don't really see the issue as Humans vs. Computers; there is no real fight that needs to be won. That said, you can always dumb computers down and win against them. If I had to pick a winner, I'd bet on those wily human beings in the long run. The short bet, however, goes on the computer. :) *Wiz* |
| Posted by youngglor uskidscompute.com 10/16/2003 16:09:55 play online chess | Message: I mean the strongest human and the strongest computer in a chess match... |
| Posted by anaxagoras uskidscompute.com 10/16/2003 16:20:05 play online chess | Message: You must also stipulate *when* youngglor. The strongest human player ever will probably be comparable to a lot of the other great chess players we've already seen. The strongest computer program is yet to be seen, and its potential asymptotically approaches a forced win from move one. Now if they could just teach a computer to think out its own opening instead of relying on the book... then I'd really be convinced. Other than that, the issue isn't interesting. |
| Posted by youngglor uskidscompute.com 10/16/2003 16:46:19 play online chess | Message: Sorry...well if i would stipulate "when" i would probably say the next decade or so... p.s. I do agree the subject isn't that interesting but i just wanted to make these forums a lively place. Im used to RPG forums where there is a constant flow of posts...if you understand what i mean. Im going to start another post, maybe more interesting... Cheers |
| Posted by caldazar uskidscompute.com 10/16/2003 17:03:28 play online chess | Message: Assuming the methodology for programming computer chess engines does not change significantly (a very poor assumption), humans should always win out. Despite the fact that computers are phenomenal calculators, then don't do much else. Brute force only takes you as far as you can calculate. If the point of an idea is 15 moves away, a computer that can only reasonably calculate up to 25 ply won't understand it and will simply misevaluate the position. True, computing power is always increasing, but there's a whole lot of ply to cover between the position after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 and a 4-against-3 pawn situation vs. 2 bishops endgame, and each additional ply requires (approximately) exponentially more calculating power to achieve than the previous one. Beating a computer consistently is simple (not easy, but simple). You spend the time and keep playing games until you win one. Then you play the exact same moves every time thereafter under the same time conditions. The computer will repeat the same moves over and over and lose every time thereafter. Computer engines (currently) do not have the ability to significantly alter their own evaluative functions (although they do have ways to self-modify their own opening book to a limited extent). If, in a position, a computer misevaluates an exchange sacrifice, it will misevaluate the sacrifice in the exact same way every time you set up the exact same position. That's why it's so important to understand the strengths and weaknesses of a particular engine when you use it as a tool; you have to know in which situations you can trust the analysis it spits out and when you have to ignore the machine. Of course, in real man vs. machine matches, the programmers tweak the engine after each game to compensate for the computer engine's lack of learning ability. But now you're talking about man vs. the learning/understanding of man+calculating power of machine. Not terribly surprising that the solo man does not necessarily fare well. I'm hoping this will change in the near future, that programmers will develop efficient ways to incorporate learning and adaptive algorithms into their programs. I think that'd be something really interesting to see and maybe I can finally get Fritz to stop grabbing material when it should be playing dynamically. |
| Posted by silverwolfwsc uskidscompute.com 10/16/2003 22:22:10 play online chess | humans vs humans? Message: isnt it really just a human vs human battle anyhow? They are just using two different tools. Once uses their own brain to play chess, and the other uses their brain to make a computer play chess. |
| Posted by wizard_of_odd uskidscompute.com 10/17/2003 12:22:39 play online chess | Silverwolf Message: That's my point exactly. :) |
| Posted by atrifix uskidscompute.com 10/19/2003 17:49:08 play online chess | Message: www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=1244 |
Chess news: Chess Opening tips -- Like many games of skill, chess is easy to learn and fun to play — but difficult to master. Although the goal is to checkmate the enemy king, don't expect an early knockout. The opening is roughly defined as the first dozen or so moves. The purpose is not to win outright, but to reach a playable middle game. By following these simple guidelines you should be able to sit down and play an intelligent game of chess. Here are some chess opening tips: 1. Always play to dominate the middle of the board. Occupy, attack or watch the center. 2. Develop ALL your men fast, not just one or two. The opening is a race for rapid and continuous development. 3. Develop knights before ... A Trove of Fischer Photographs Surfaces -- Photographs taken during trips that Bobby Fischer made to the Philippines in 1967 and 1973, after he became world chess champion, have appeared in a group of three videos on YouTube. Descriptions of the videos say that they were part of the belongings left behind by Fischer in a storage locker in Pasadena, Calif. Those belongings were bought at auction earlier this year by Rex A. Sinquefield, a financier who sponsored this year’s U.S. Chess Championship and U.S. Women’s Chess Championship. The photographs show Fischer being feted and entertained by President Ferdinand Marcos, the leader of the Philippines, and his wife, Imelda. The scenes are, in some ways ... Anna Zatonskih Defends U.S. Chess Championship Title -- The United States women’s chess champion, Anna Zatonskih, easily defended her title last week and dominated the championship tournament in St. Louis. Afterward, Zatonskih, who has a 2 ½-year-old daughter, joked, “I am trying to prove that motherhood did something good.” In the chess tournament, which ended on Tuesday, Zatonskih yielded only one draw and scored 8.5 out of a possible 9 points. The victory was a relief for Zatonskih, who had struggled recently, particularly at the Women’s World Team Championship last month in China, where she scored only 2 points in 7 games. In a telephone interview, Zatonskih said she wants to have another child, but ... | |