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| Posted by bellepheron uskidscompute.com 6/01/2003 13:54:31 Play online chess |  Subject: Intiution vs CalculationMessage: I was wondering, how often people of different skill levels make a move, simply because it 'feels right'. Often I make a move this way (after first checking that it is not an obvious blunder). I do so sometimes because I don't have time to calculate every possibility. Other times I do it because I don't 'know' what move is right, but feel like I have an intuitive grasp on how the game will progress from there. Sometimes it works, sometimes it bites me. So I guess the question is: should I strive to remove intuitive impulses from my game, and calculate more, or should I develop and trust my instincts? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted by bluebabygirl uskidscompute.com 6/01/2003 14:15:52 Play online chess | re- Message: first I must calculate to see if an intuitive move is a blunder, then seeing that its not an outright blunder, i calculate again to see what positive results I may get from it (such win a piece, cramp opponents game or mating attack, etc. ) having then come to a conclusion that it will be a positive move i go for it . so i say calculation is more important because even intuitive moves MUST be calculated to some degree. So my answer is use your intuition but but back it up by some degree of calculation . I think many a brilliancy was made based on primarily intuition. yours bluebabygirl | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted by indiana-jay uskidscompute.com 6/01/2003 22:27:09 Play online chess | Message: I agree very much with Bluebabygirl. But in my case, I'm developing my intuition and calculating skill. I will try the hardest variation and when my intuition tells me that I have a chance, I will do that. It's not important for me if the calculation or intuition is then happened to be wrong (or there is a simple good or winning move, like in a game where I had a chance to fork opponent's Queen). I believe that this way my instinc will get better. At least in the future I will know if there is something right or something wrong in an intuition, not just "blind" because I never worked it out. When I was a kid, I was too afraid to do the long castling, or to attack opponent's King with pawns. Here I always try to find the possibility to attack with pawns, ignoring my own King safety. I know that there are situations or positions where such attack is justified, and I know that many opponents don't expect such attack. ——— The endgame, part 2: a knockout blow — How does white get a win from this position? RB Is there anything more headache-inducing in chess than an endgame study? And the simpler the position, the more intense the pain. I think, after almost an hour, that I've found the first three moves of the winning sequence, but I can't seem to find the knockout blow. 1 Kf6 seems obvious and good – go for the diagonal opposition! Since 1...g5 loses immediately to 2 Kg6, Black's only move is 1...Kh7. Now 2 g4 is equally obvious (after 2 h4 h5 White can make no further progress). Black has only two options, and since 2...h5 allows 3 g5, when the black king will be forced to retreat to the back rank and White will gobble up ... Posted by tyekanyk | uskidscompute.com 6/01/2003 23:28:04 Play online chess itiution rulesMessage: there is a famous butade that says that the first move you think of right after your oponent mkes his move is the best. To have a good intiution one must have good chess knowledge and a considerable amount of experience. The only exception I know of is Capablanca. He played extremly well ever since he was a small boy. But how many of us can compare themselves to the great "Capa" ? ——— Fischer’s Friends — After the chess champion Bobby Fischer settled in Iceland, he spent much of his time with a small group of people that he trusted. Though he died more than two years ago, that small group of confidants remain loyal and protective of him and his legacy. All of them are unhappy about the fight over his estate and about the recent procedure to extract D.N.A. from his remains to perform a test to determine if he is the father of a nine-year-old Filipino girl. To the outside world, Fischer in his later years seemed eccentric, even ghastly, spouting antisemitic comments and celebrating the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States. But his friends say that image was misleading and even ... Posted by brobishkin | uskidscompute.com 6/01/2003 23:55:46 Play online chess Intuition vs Calculation... Message: Man does not live by calculation alone, and there is other food for thought... All of the discipline of calculation can stifle your creative muse... It's not enough just to calculate... As Capablanca once said... In chess, as played by a good player, logic and imagination must go hand in hand, compensating each other... But playing by intuition is just as dangerous as playing soley on calculation... Playing by emotion almost always leads you down the road to distruction... You should not play one move at a time... And never start out by calculating what your opponent will do in responce to a planned move... Set out your goals on your advantages and the imbalances on the board, find ways to achieve them, and then find variations which lead to that goal... Bro... ——— So Holds Lead in Biel, as Negi Gets on the Board — Wesley So of the Philippines drew his Round 4 game Thursday in the Biel Chess Festival, which was enough for him to hold on to the lead. He has 3 points. Most of the other games also ended in draws, with the exception of the contest between Dmitry Andreikin of Russia and David Howell of Britain. In that game, Andreikin found a new idea in a well-known variation of the English opening. Surprised, Howell struggled and quickly fell into trouble. Andreikin’s rooks penetrated to the seventh rank, after which there was little Howell could do and he resigned after only 30 moves. Andreikin is tied for second with Fabiano Caruana of Italy and Evgeny Tomashevsky of Russia. They each have 2.5 points. Once ... Posted by drgandalf | uskidscompute.com 6/02/2003 13:15:52 Play online chess At my level of playMessage: I haven't the faintest idea to what degree calculation and inspiration play in my chess. I do know that both are weak. ——— Two Draws and a Blunder in Dortmund — One of the eternal frustrations of chess is that a well played game can be lost with one careless move. Shakhriyar Mamedyarov of Azerbaijan, the No. 6 chess player in the world, was reminded of this on Wednesday at the elite Sparkassen Chess-Meeting in Dortmunt, Germany. In Round 6, Mamedyarov was White against Arkadij Naiditsch of Germany. Mamedyarov got a clear edge out of the opening and had his opponent under pressure for much of the game. Naiditsch defended well and the game seemed to heading for a draw when Mamedyarov blundered, taking a knight with his rook that was defended by Naiditsch’s queen. As chess blunders go, it was not exactly colossal, but ... Posted by rajuncajun | uskidscompute.com 6/02/2003 14:01:54 Play online chess i trust my instincs Message: I trust my instincs in real life they help me get through the days i mean if u dont trust your instincs then how do u live cause all ur choices live off of instincs. I mean when u think of a possible solution to a question that is an instinc so when you come up with more then they are made off of the instinc so every one is usin instics. U cant make a calculation with out an instinc so that is what i say. ——— Shankland Is US Junior Chess Champion — Samuel Shankland, an 18-year-old international master, survived a three-way playoff on Tuesday to win the United States junior chess championship. Shankland was the No. 2 seed, but he beat Ray Robson, the top seed and a chess grandmaster, in an Armageddon game to claim the title. As there were three players tied for first, there were two playoff games. Robson, by virtue of having the better tie-breaker scores, met the winner of the first game. In that one, Shankland beat Parker Zhao. The playoff involved long Armageddon games, just like the one used at the U.S. Chess Championship earlier this year. Shankland and Zhao, each chess player secretly bid on how much time, up to ... Posted by peppe_l | uskidscompute.com 6/03/2003 03:01:56 Play online chess IMOMessage: Intuition is mostly pattern recognition, but of course calling it simply intuition sounds better :-) Posted by anaxagoras | uskidscompute.com 6/03/2003 10:14:19 Play online chess Message: Ugh, can I say the word? To a very great degree what we call chess intuition is "unconscious" calculation, and it is necessary to make that hypothesis in order to explain the frequent soundness of "intuitive" moves (yes, we also check for blunders). To explicitly spell-out all of the calcuations your brain makes during a chess game would make your head explode! ;-) Which throws some light on Reti's answer to the question of how many moves ahead he calculated to decide on a move: he replied, arrogantly, "two!" Posted by kingofpawns | uskidscompute.com 6/03/2003 10:17:08 Play online chess peppe_1Message: I believe you are correct. What people call intution in chess is pattern recognition. More experience and training in chess leads to better pattern recognition and discrimination. Strong players will also be better at recognizing, which variations must be calculated. Posted by lukulus | uskidscompute.com 6/03/2003 10:24:56 Play online chess Message: Intuition is very important for pläyers who prefer positional style. But calculation must go hand-in-hand with intuition. Posted by peppe_l | uskidscompute.com 6/03/2003 10:31:59 Play online chess Anaxagoras Message: Chess players have improved since the times of Reti, when Kramnik was asked the same question his reply was "one, the best move" :-) Posted by atrifix | uskidscompute.com 6/03/2003 16:05:36 Play online chess Message: Reti replied "one move", not two. Two just...isn't the same. The fact is that on average, any player usually calculates one to two moves ahead. That means you can usually beat GMs with simple two-move combinations. But what generally separates GMs from patzers is the ability to appraise positions correctly, which usually leads to faster, more accurate, and more efficient calculation. It's also been said that something like 90% of calculation is subconscious. Call it what you will, but I think it's difficult to separate the idea of intuition from calculation. Posted by chesstickle | uskidscompute.com 6/03/2003 17:33:28 Play online chess i agreeMessage: with atrifix and peppe_l . de Groot a dutch psychologist conducted an experiment showing chess positions to players of varying strengths including nigel short. They were allowed 5 second to study the position and had to recall the position. Beginners could place 4-5 pieces, experienced players 70-80% of the pieces, and the grandmasters reproduced the position but also noted the combination. Clearly pattern recognition but not methodical calculation. sample position W - Ra1, Rf1, Kg1, Bg2, Qb5, Nd5, a2,b2,e4,f2,g3,h2 B - Rb8, Rh8, Kf8, Bb7, Nf6, Qg5, a7,c7,e5,f7,g7,h7. in this case white to play and mate in 5. Posted by kremator | uskidscompute.com 6/03/2003 18:02:13 Play online chess chesstickleMessage: 5 seconds did you mean minutes or seconds? Posted by bluebabygirl | uskidscompute.com 6/03/2003 18:21:25 Play online chess Message: i disagree about it being simple pattern recognition in my case because ive only been playing just over 3 years and most times i make moves based on intuition there definately is nothing in that position thats even remotely familiar to me . when there is something familiar i make my move based on my memory of what was before . and chesstickle that degroot experiment only shows memory performance based on experience hence the grandmasters scoring best . All it did was to prove that their pattern recognition was better . it actually proved NOTHING on INTUITION . when i made strong moves based on intuition in my first few games and won against much stronger players my dad asked me how i knew that they were correct i didnt know i just felt it . however he being very strong player saw immediately that they were right moves ,. at that time i had no patterns to recall!! Also i mostly get my intuition in games that have new unfamiliar positions . yours bluebabygirl Posted by kremator | uskidscompute.com 6/03/2003 18:44:53 Play online chess Patterns are everywhereMessage: The truth is you did recall patterns. Humans do many amazing things every day and never even notice it. Most players could easily see what to do when there's a castled king with your bishop on e6 and your queen on h5. It's all pattern recognition but you never have to think about it if you've been playing long enough. Posted by chesstickle | uskidscompute.com 6/04/2003 15:23:41 Play online chess secondsMessage: 5 seconds. not minutes. Posted by kremator | uskidscompute.com 6/04/2003 15:29:13 Play online chess 5 SECONDS!!!!Message: Omg I couldn't even turn my brain on in that little ammount of time! Posted by bluebabygirl | uskidscompute.com 6/11/2003 19:36:49 Play online chess to kremator Message: Well i certainly believe you !!!!! BBG Posted by bellepheron | uskidscompute.com 6/12/2003 06:01:01 Play online chess Pattern recognitionMessage: I don't think it is pattern recognition when I just 'feel' like having a bishop on a certain square is right - even when I can't calculate a specific reason why. It helps that I understand certain basic priciples (for example - that a bishop whose influence extends to many other squares is powerful). However, that does not explain an intuitive certainty about one square over another that seems equal or better, particularly if I cannot calculate a specific advantage from the square i have chosen. Were Tal's intuitive sacrifices pattern reconition? It seems odd to consider them so, since many were shown to be unsound after deep analysis. However his intuition led him to the right move considering the total context of his situation, since even if the sac was 'unsound', it mostly led to a victory OTB! Posted by bluebabygirl | uskidscompute.com 6/12/2003 08:07:49 Play online chess to bellepheronMessage: i agree totally with that. same with me . i play intuitive moves quite often and majority of the times they bear fruit. funny thing is they never involve a defensive move they are always attacking moves . can not explain that unless maybe attacking is my passion . or else maybe when i get to a position where my attack has been stopped maybe my intuition kicks in to supply that which my consious thoughts can not . yours BBG Posted by mdorothy | uskidscompute.com 6/12/2003 10:13:49 Play online chess Capablanca a.k.a. Mr. IntuitionMessage: I read on another site's forums about Capablanca playing mostly on intuition later on in life. It talked about two Capablanca's. The first one (who faced Marshall's attack in 1918 and became WC in 1921) calculated deep and concrete variants. The second one (later, during reign) played almost completely on intuition. People would work hard on opening traps/variants that make the natural move wrong. But Capablanca would play the natural move and prove that it works anyway, just like its supposed to. |