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| Posted by indiana-jay uskidscompute.com 5/24/2003 03:21:37 Play online chess |  Subject: Chess AnalysisMessage: This thread is intended to write my analysis on premium_steve game posted in another thread as he requested, and also my understanding of chess analysis. Chess game analysis can be seen as a subjective thing. This is because we will have to deal with calculations. The best result gained from calculation 3 moves ahead can be the worst resulted from calculation 5 moves ahead. So what can we do? Calculate as many moves as possible? To calculate as many moves as possible we will need to go through our intelligent limit, and to spend exhaustive (exponentially increasing) amount of time. We don’t have unlimited time, do we? Supposed we can calculate 3 moves ahead on the average. When making our 14th move, we know what we can possibly get after move 17, but when we make our 15th move, we can see the future in move 18 which may leave us a fact that we have to revise all the previous calculations. Ironic, huh? So what is the key? Visions. We will need good visions, and only use the calculation to backup or support those visions. (Well, There are critical situations where we must do the exhaustive calculation, there are situations we should rely on visions). This requires positional understanding, because we’re not only going to deal with options such as “three pawns down OR one bishop down”. Mostly we will have to compare positions! Thus, it’s not whether we have to move with Ng4 or Qb7, rather, it is our “wisdom” on how we should play the game. Is this easy? No, it’s not. We need to know a lot of theories and principles as well as practicing (say to understand openings). But I know that some easy part of it have been overlooked by many players (including me). It is okay for me when I make blunders (as long as I know I do). It hurts me when I just don’t know what to do (e.g. I don’t know whether I should capture the bishop or the knight). So premium_steve, below is my brief comment (with capital letters) on your game. It doesn’t have to be I’m right and you’re wrong (That’s why I wrote the above introduction). |
| Posted by indiana-jay uskidscompute.com 5/24/2003 03:25:57 Play online chess | The Game Message: 1.e4,c6 2.d4,d5 3.e5,Bf5 4.h4,h6 5.g4,Bd7 6.h5, (i think i should have played c4 instead or Bd3.) AGREE. FOR SOME REASONS THIS INDIVIDUAL MOVE IS A BLUNDER. IT MAY BE OKAY IF IT WAS PART OF SEVERAL FORCED POSITIONAL COMBINATION YOU HAVE CALCULATED BEFOREHAND. BUT SEEMS YOU DIDN'T HAVE IT. YOU THEN HAVE A LOOSING POSITION HERE. 6...Qc8 7.Bh3 (Bd2 is much better, i think. i can't develop my king-knight now unless i play g5 or f3 first. bishop has better scope at d2. The bishop looks very misplaced on h3 later in the game too. even f3 would be better than Bh3 i think) AGREE. SEEMS LIKE YOU CALCULATE ONLY ONE MOVE AHEAD (FROM YOUR COMMENT). I BELIEVE THAT 1800 RATED PLAYERS WILL ALWAYS CALCULATE THE EXACT REPLY, Bh3/f3/Bd2, OR EVEN GIVE THE g-PAWN AWAY. WITH THE LAST OPTION YOU CAN THEN THREAT THE BISHOP (IF HE TOOK THE GAMBIT) WITH f3 AND YOU WIN SOME TEMPO AND HAVE AN OPEN FILE TO ATTACK BLACK KING. 7...c5 8.c3 (i didn't want to play 8.dxc because of 8...e6. and if 9.b4, then 9...b6. the king bishop gets developed on strong squares either b4 or c5), BUT C3 IS NOT BETTER. IT IS INTUITIVELY CORRECT TO MOVE WITH C3 WHEN THE POSITION IS CRAMPED OR YOU ARE STRUGLING TO DOMINATE THE CENTER. THE SITUATION IS YOU HAVE LIMITED TIME TO BUILD A FORTRESS FOR YOUR KING. g5, SOON (OR AFTER PRELIMINARY MOVE) MUST BE EXECUTED TO EXCHANGE PIECES OR TO QUICKLY ATTACK ON BLACK KING SIDE. 8..Nc6 9.f4?,cxd 10.cxd,Nxd4 11.Nc3 (not 11.Qxd4 because 11...Qxc1+ 12.Qd1,Qxf4 and i'm in very bad position) THIS IS THE POINT WHERE INTUITION OR VISION BECOME LESS IMPORTANT THAN EXACT CALCULATION. I WILL DEFENDING WHILE HAVING ONE OBJECTIVE: SAVING MY KING BY CASTLING TO THE QUEEN SIDE. 11...Qc5! gives me a lot of trouble i think 12.Nf3? (but i don't have many good moves. maybe Be3 would be best. i think i was scared from making the move because the Nc2+ looks so pretty. but after 12.Be3,Nc7+13.QxN,Qxe3+14.Ne2 i think i'm doing ok! much better than what follows 12.Nf3) 12...Nxf3 13.Qxf3,Bc6 14.Bd2,e6 15.f5? (i thought this was a good move when i played it, but it doesn't work. the most natural move now wins for black.) I CANNOT SEE HOW F5 CAN BE A GOOD MOVE. IT'S NOT THE TIME TO ATTACK BUT TO DEFENSE. LETTING YOUR QUEEN AND ROOK GET THREATENED BY THE BISHOP IN ONE MOVE (D4) IS ONE OF THE VERY BASIC CHESS "DON'TS" 15...d4 16.Ne4,Qxe5 17.Bg2,Nf6 the knight is dead and my position is lost. i resign.... . very sad for me. maybe someone here can help me find some better ideas than the ones i came up with (or maybe correct my bad analysis ;)). thanks! |
| Posted by premium_steve uskidscompute.com 5/24/2003 08:21:21 Play online chess | thanks! Message: i am looking at g5 now as a possible move instead of my 8.c3. i think it would have been a good idea to play g5 at some point to trade off my bishop if at all possible, without ruining my position. after 8.g5, 8...Bxh3 9.Nxh3 or 9.Rxh3 looks ok for me (to me :)). and if 8...cxd, i would probably play 9.g6 . i think black would most likely play 8...hxg5 because after i play 9.Bxg5 maybe he could play Nh6? i don't know. i think g5 would be alright. you see how i played the game and how i TRY to analyze, so maybe i'm a lost cause no matter which move i play ;)! because i'd be on my own again for the next move. uh oh.... hahaha! thanks again, indianajay. -steve |
| Posted by gambitnut uskidscompute.com 5/24/2003 23:24:39 Play online chess | Message: (MY COMMENTS ARE IN BOLD AND PARENTHESES) 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3 .e5 Bf5 4. h4 h6 5. g4 Bd7 6. h5 (i think i should have played c4 instead or Bd3.) AGREE. FOR SOME REASONS THIS INDIVIDUAL MOVE IS A BLUNDER. IT MAY BE OKAY IF IT WAS PART OF SEVERAL FORCED POSITIONAL COMBINATION YOU HAVE CALCULATED BEFOREHAND. BUT SEEMS YOU DIDN'T HAVE IT. YOU THEN HAVE A LOOSING POSITION HERE. (I WASN'T SURE WEATHER THIS MOVE IS GOOD OR NOT SO I PULLED OUT MCO-13 AND FOUND THAT 6. H5 IS THE BOOK MOVE! PROBABLY BECAUSE IT KEEPS THE BLACK KINGSIDE PIECES BOTTLED UP.) 6. ... Qc8 (THIS IS A MISTAKE. BLACK MAKES AN ONE MOVE THREAT AND AFTER WHTE DEFENDS, BLACK'S QUEEN IS MISPLACED. BLACK IS SOON GOING TO ATTACK WHITE'S CENTER WITH C5 AND IT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE TO DO SO AFTER 6. ... E6 AND THEN ADD MORE PRESSURE WITH QB6. THE OTHER PROBLEM WITH QC8 IS THAT IS TAKES AWAY THE QUEEN ROOK'S MOST NATURAL SQUARE.) 7. Bh3 (Bd2 is much better, i think. i can't develop my king-knight now unless i play g5 or f3 first. bishop has better scope at d2. The bishop looks very misplaced on h3 later in the game too. even f3 would be better than Bh3 i think) AGREE. SEEMS LIKE YOU CALCULATE ONLY ONE MOVE AHEAD (FROM YOUR COMMENT). I BELIEVE THAT 1800 RATED PLAYERS WILL ALWAYS CALCULATE THE EXACT REPLY, Bh3/f3/Bd2, OR EVEN GIVE THE g-PAWN AWAY. WITH THE LAST OPTION YOU CAN THEN THREAT THE BISHOP (IF HE TOOK THE GAMBIT) WITH f3 AND YOU WIN SOME TEMPO AND HAVE AN OPEN FILE TO ATTACK BLACK KING. (I THINK BH3 IS PERFECTLY FINE. BH3 DOES MORE TO HELP A FUTURE KINGSIDE ATTACK WITH F5.) 7. ... c5 8. c3 (i didn't want to play 8. dxc because of 8. ... e6. and if 9. b4, then 9. ... b6. the king bishop gets developed on strong squares either b4 or c5), BUT C3 IS NOT BETTER. IT IS INTUITIVELY CORRECT TO MOVE WITH C3 WHEN THE POSITION IS CRAMPED OR YOU ARE STRUGLING TO DOMINATE THE CENTER. THE SITUATION IS YOU HAVE LIMITED TIME TO BUILD A FORTRESS FOR YOUR KING. g5, SOON (OR AFTER PRELIMINARY MOVE) MUST BE EXECUTED TO EXCHANGE PIECES OR TO QUICKLY ATTACK ON BLACK KING SIDE. (C3 IS THE BEST MOVE HERE. ATTACKING BY MOVING THE KINGSIDE PAWNS IS FINE AS LONG AS WHITE KEEPS TWO SOLID CENTER PAWNS ON D4 AND E5 AND KEEPS THE CENTER CLOSED. WHITE WANTS TO ATTACK WITH F5 NOT G5. ALL G5 DOES IS GIVE THE KING KNIGHT A SQUARE AND OPEN UP AN ATTACK ON WHITE'S E-PAWN FROM BLACK'S KING ROOK.) 8. ... Nc6 9.f4? (THIS IS INDEED A MISTAKE BUT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT IDEA! THE ATTACK WITH F4 AND F5 IS THE CORRECT PLAN BUT AS YOU FOUND OUT, THERE IS A TACTICAL FLAW AT THE MOMENT. YOU SHOULD HAVE DEVELOPED A PIECE, REINFORCED YOUR CENTER AND GOTTEN YOUR BISHOP OFF THAT FILE WITH 9. BE3 AND THEN 10. F4.) 9. ... cxd 10. cxd Nxd4 11. Nc3 (not 11. Qxd4 because 11. ... Qxc1+ 12. Qd1 Qxf4 and i'm in very bad position) THIS IS THE POINT WHERE INTUITION OR VISION BECOME LESS IMPORTANT THAN EXACT CALCULATION. I WILL DEFENDING WHILE HAVING ONE OBJECTIVE: SAVING MY KING BY CASTLING TO THE QUEEN SIDE. (CASTLING DOESN'T MAKE A KING SAFE AND A KING ISN'T UNSAFE JUST BECAUSE IT ISN'T CASTLED. IF THE CENTER IS CLOSED THEY KING CAN BE PERFECTLY HAPPY IN THE CENTER. CASTLING QUEENSIDE HERE WOULD PUT THE KING ON AN OPEN FILE. WHITE'S KING IS SAFER HERE THAN IT WOULD BE AFTER CASTLING QUEENSIDE.) 11. ... Qc5! gives me a lot of trouble i think (THIS IS A GOOD MOVE BECAUSE IT GETS THE QUEEN INTO THE GAME AND OPENS C8 UP FOR THE QUEEN ROOK BUT I DON'T THINK IT DESERVES AN EXCLAMATION POINT.) 12. Nf3? (but i don't have many good moves. maybe Be3 would be best. i think i was scared from making the move because the Nc2+ looks so pretty. but after 12. Be3 Nc2+ 13. Qxc2 Qxe3+ 14. Ne2 i think i'm doing ok! much better than what follows 12. Nf3) (I ALSO DON'T THINK THIS DESERVES A QUESTION MARK. I THINK IT IS PROBABLY THE BEST MOVE. IT GETS RID OF ONE OF BLACK'S GOOD PIECES AND DEVELOPS WHITE'S QUEEN TO A PLACK WHERE IT CAN AID THE KINGSIDE ATTACK.) 12. ... Nxf3 13. Qxf3 Bc6 14. Bd2 e6 15. f5? (i thought this was a good move when i played it, but it doesn't work. the most natural move now wins for black.) I CANNOT SEE HOW F5 CAN BE A GOOD MOVE. IT'S NOT THE TIME TO ATTACK BUT TO DEFENSE. LETTING YOUR QUEEN AND ROOK GET THREATENED BY THE BISHOP IN ONE MOVE (D4) IS ONE OF THE VERY BASIC CHESS "DON'TS" (AGAIN, RIGHT IDEA, BAD TIMING. THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOUR E-PAWN IS DNDEFENDED AND AFTER A SIMPLE TACTIC BLACK TAKES IT FOLLOWED BY THE KNIGHT. I WOULD HAVE DEVELOPED ANOTHER PIECE AND PUT A ROOK ON THE SAME FILE AS BLACK'S QUEEN WITH 15. RC1. THEN I WOULD PLAY 16. RF1 FOLLOWED BY 17. QG3, DEFENDING THE E-PAWN AND THEN 18. F5.) 15. ... d4 16. Ne4 Qxe5 17. Bg2 Nf6 the knight is dead and my position is lost. i resign.... . very sad for me. |
| Posted by indiana-jay uskidscompute.com 5/25/2003 00:45:17 Play online chess | Hi premium_steve, Message: If only we could think 100 moves ahead, may be we would find out that 1.d4 is a blunder (just an analogy). In general, computers think by calculating moves. Only modern programs are enhanced with tables etc that makes them "think" like human. There's no way human can calculate many moves or variations like computers do, but that doesn't make human inferior. To be better than computers, human must use visions. When a program tells you to move with Nf3, it could be a part of 10 moves combination (another analogy). What will you do if a computer tells you to exchange your Queen with a Rook? It may be a forced winning combination. But if you cannot figure it out, that's a blunder (But don't worry, such combi takes a lot of CPU time to calculate, while a good human player can spot the combination in seconds! :) Of course I didn’t mean that 6.h5 was a blunder exactly as it was written. I’ve seen many tried to copy an opening but with different move order for both sides. And many think “if your pawn is on h6 instead of h5, it is still a French Defense because you can move h6-h5 later on”. That is just funny how people use “books” moves without knowing the idea. I think French is almost “the same” with Sicilian (My favorites were Sicilian and KI) where a little difference in pieces position will make big difference. I don’t know whether MCO-13 is a computer or an opening book, but it is strange if you can find it in computer or opening book. Computers, besides doing the calculation, also having a database for positions or games ever played. And Black moves until 6.h5 are strange to me. What is his intention to move with 5…h6 and then pull the bishop back to d7? May be he was just trying to confuse you. Intentionally making mistake in order to gain advantage is so common in chess. And it may be not a blunder, EIHW ;) |
| Posted by gambitnut uskidscompute.com 5/25/2003 00:52:51 Play online chess | MCO-13 is a book Message: Modern Chess Openings - 13th edition 4. ... h6 followed by 5. ... Bd7 does seem odd to me but it is one of the main lines and if 5. ... Bh7, white gets a good game with 6. e6. |
| Posted by peppe_l uskidscompute.com 5/25/2003 04:57:35 Play online chess | Some comments Message: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.h4 <I believe Tal was the one who polularized this move? Perhaps it claimed victims years ago, but nowadays it isnt considered as promising as 4.Nc3 or 4.Nf3> 4...h6 <4...h5 is safer, forcing white to drop his plans of playing quick g4> 5.g4 Bd7 <Looks strange but the point is black wants to prove white kingside is weak. He brings the bishop away from the kingside where it was a potential target for white pawns. And of course Gambitnut is correct - 5...Bh7 6.e6! is promising for white> 6.h5 <Once again looks strange but this very logical move prevents h5 by black (a standard way to stop h4-g4 kingside attacks), grabs some space and yes, keeps black somewhat cramped for now. It is difficult for black to exploit the weak squares h5 creates since both F6 and g6 are deprived from his knight > 6...Qc8? <Indeed a strange one-move threat. Gambitnut already gave a good explanation why 6...e6 is better, but if I may add Bd7-Qc8 and standard e6 do not fit together...> 7.Bh3 <Good move IMO. Why waste time for 7.f3 let alone gambit g-pawn for obscure compensation after black plays something like Bf5 etc?> 7...c5 <Thematic counter-attack begins> 8.c3 <8.dxc5 looks risky to me, after 8...e6 soon followed by Bxc5 (9.b4? Nc6) Bc5 will be a monster, and if Be3 Bxc5 Bxc5 Qxc5 it is harder for white to start an attack and his central and kingside weaknesses will really begin to haunt him> 8...Nc6 9.f4? <Overlooking a tactical threat, correct move must be 9.Be3 (supporting d4, developing, preparing possible g5 or even Bxh6 sac later...you name it!)> 9...cxd4! 10.cxd4 <Here white had a chance to claim 9.f4 wasnt tactical error but a sacrifice! Too bad he cant play 10.Be3 now, since after 10...dxc3 11.Nxc3 he will develop Nb1 with tempo and gain control of d4 square. But he has to find a good 10th move, and sadly I cant find any! Lets look at options he has - 10.Nf3 is followed by Bxg4 and 10.Nbd2 does not convince me. True, after 10...dxc3 11.bxc3 weak pawn in c3 controls d4 and there is some compensation in the form of semi-open b-file etc, but somehow I feel it isnt enough in this rather airy position white has. And of course back can always play d4...Maybe 10.Bd2!? is a decent try, when 10...d4!? is interesting. And last but not least, if black simply ignores the pawn and plays 10...e6, white pieces look clumsy> 10...Nxd4 11.Nc3 Qc5! <A good move, securing the strong location of Nd4> 12.Nf3 <I leave this tactical stuff for others, maybe white had something better than 12.Nf3 but his position looks difficult anyway> 12...Nxf3+ 13.Qxf3 Bc6! <Now d4 is really nasty threat> 14.Bd2? <I cant find anything really good but white had to do something to defend against d4> 14...e6 <14...d4!> 15.f5 d4! <And here we go> 16.Ne4 Qxe5 17.Bg2 Nf6 0-1 |
| Posted by gambitnut uskidscompute.com 5/25/2003 10:18:50 Play online chess | Peppe Message: Thanks for the comments. I figured 4. ... h6 must be some sort of waiting move to take advantage of white's weakening kingside pawn moves. Thanks for confirming. Isn't white doing fine after 14. Bd2 d4 15. Ne4? I think 15. f5 was definitely the losing move. If white had followed the plan I gave after white's 15th move, I think white would still be doing pretty well, even after blundering a pawn. |
| Posted by peppe_l uskidscompute.com 5/25/2003 11:29:12 Play online chess | To be honest Message: I cant see how white is doing well, for example after simple 15...e6 (pawn sac e6 might be strong at some point) it is hard to believe in sufficient compensation for the pawn. Passer in d4 is good and if it advances to d3, after Bc5 black bishops are extremely powerful. Later he might try something like Ne7-d5-e3 etc, and if white somehow manages to start an attack, he can even consider castling long (for example 16.Rc1 Qd5 17.Bg2 0-0-0!?). Overall black has many options to choose from - and extra pawn! Perhaps he could even grab another by playing 15...Qc2, followed by 16...Qxb2? Of course - as always - Im open to the possibility that Im wrong :-) |
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