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indphantom 68 ( +1 | -1 )
Cancel game after opening? I was recently challenged by a rather high ranked player (1600+) and accepted the challenge. I thought this to be a sporting opportunity, and since my rating is only 1250+, thought I might learn something (while losing, of course).

I won't mention the player's login, since I feel that what I encountered was a very cheap tactic. The challenger was white, and we completed the first move e4,e5. The challenger then moved Qh5, and when I countered with Qe7 (the proper defense), this player cancelled the game!

Is this considered proper etiquette at gameknot. I certainly hope not. I would just like some other opinions on this.

Thanks in advance.

Bob
tulkos 20 ( +1 | -1 )
Of course it's not proper etiquette. the things people do to gain a few points. But it is possible that this player cancled the game for a different reason, have you checked his other games to see if he has been doing this repeatedly?
brobishkin 36 ( +1 | -1 )
Etiquette... I am sorry for your unfortunate experience phantom... It's very unsprotman like conduct when someone play a hustle and backs out of the deal when they are busted... 2. ... Qe7 is one correct move, but 2. ... Nc6 is another correct choice as well... It's a shame such an individual plays so cheap... You should name the culprit to forewarn others here on gameknot...

Bro...
honololou 6 ( +1 | -1 )
tulkos… if the game is cancelled, then there's no way to check it,
right?
indphantom 84 ( +1 | -1 )
brobishkin I've played both options on the second move against this tactic. Using Nc6 prior to Qe7 allows the white queen several different attack points. Usually I use Qe7, then Nc6 on the third move. This forces the white queen to retreat and provides an immediate advantage to the black side of the board.

I checked several games on this player's history and found this tactic used repeatedly. I found none completed in which the black side player countered this tactic with Qe7. Hmmmmm.

I think honololou is correct, there is no way to check games that have been cancelled.

Perhaps cancellation should not be allowed by GameKnot after both players have made one move? Just an idea.

Thanks all for your input, at least I let off a little steam.

Bob
atrifix 38 ( +1 | -1 )
It's possible that the player had another reason for cancelling the game, anyhow. If you want games that cannot be cancelled, try league games or tournament games.

2... Qe7 is perfectly good, but hardly affords "an immediate advantage to the black side", as Black has problems developing his king bishop. 2... Nc6 is also perfectly good and I prefer this myself. Also good is 2... Qf6.
triangulator 33 ( +1 | -1 )
well that is rude- but when you do somthing like : A while ago I put into the field " e4 c5, Nf3 Nf6, e5 pls" well he played e4 c5 and c3. I canceled the game- there is nothin wrong with that is there? or mabye someone doesn't feel like playing the person after a few moves( regular moves) Qh5 is not regular and that was cheap and rude
honololou 24 ( +1 | -1 )
I don't understand… the need for a "cancel game" feature. Once you've made a
move you should commit to the game. But, as long as the
feature exists, I think the situation that Triangulator
describes is the only time where cancelling might be
justifiable.
More: Chess
triangulator 7 ( +1 | -1 )
it may be just for that- you know what I mentioned- I can't see any other use for it either
lorddreyfuss 41 ( +1 | -1 )
Cancellations... ...are OK, I guess, in cases like Triangulator's. Anyway, I think 2.Qh5 is extremely bad move, which should give black easy play from the start - but not necessarily a better position. I'll play ANYONE (with decent rating, of course, hahaha :))with black against this move (even though I play the Sicilian)!
Cancellation in move two is rude - but only if it is a repeated "tactic".
philaretus 25 ( +1 | -1 )
indphantom 2. Qh5 is a beginner's move, but is sometimes tried by stronger players in the hope of quickly knocking over an inexperienced opponent. My diagnosis in this case is that when he saw that you were onto him, he lost interest and decided to try his luck elsewhere.
tovmauzer 9 ( +1 | -1 )
Beginner move?? Brunetti played Qh5 against me!:) board #386158
keiserpaul 18 ( +1 | -1 )
Beginner move ? Vladimir Kramnik is not a beginner at all, but nevertheless some years
ago he intended to try out the move 2.Qh5 against Kasparov in the PCA Grand
Prix rapid tournaments, though only in the blitz games ..
indphantom 4 ( +1 | -1 )
keiserpaul ... Don't keep us in suspense, did it work for Kramnik?
tulkos 1 ( +1 | -1 )
Tovmauzer, Why did you play Nf6?!
tovmauzer 20 ( +1 | -1 )
Tulkos Do you think any other reply would change result of this game?:) Actually I tried Nf6 2 or 3 times in blitz games and it scored well for me, though against players of different caliber...
atrifix 15 ( +1 | -1 )
2. Qh5 is a perfectly good move. Black should not have much difficulty in equalizing, but White can cause Black a little trouble in any lines.
keiserpaul 182 ( +1 | -1 )
indphantom Here is the complete story as written in
groups.yahoo.com/group/UnorthodoxChessOpenings/message/1575

Vladimir Kramnik is not a beginner at all, but nevertheless some years
ago he intended to try out the move 2.Qh5 against Kasparov in the PCA Grand
Prix rapid tournaments, though only in the blitz games that were to decide
the outcome when rapid games failed to do so. Kramnik told this to Nigel
Short, who recently told it to us in his column in the Sunday Telegraph, an
English weekly
newspaper devoted to the pleasures of fox hunting, but also providing less
gruesome news. Somehow Kramnik never did it. He got the chance only once
in the PCA tournaments (in the blitz games that is) and then preferred
2.Nf3, and in his 1998 match of blitz games against Kasparov he avoided 1.e4
in all
his games with White. But it would have been a responsible experiment.
Imagine the shock when the world champion would be threatened with a
Scholar's
Mate, not by someone like Harrison or Becker, but by one of his most
respected colleagues. The cheek of it! It would appear as a real insult.
As an added advantage Kasparov would be out of his much-feared opening
preparation from move two. And, most important, in the main variation after
1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Nc6 3.Bc4 g6 4.Qf3 Nf6 5.Ne2 (instead of Jake's 5.Qb3?) White
is not worse, according to Kramnik. True, he doesn't have an advantage
either, as Short sensibly remarks, but one can't have everything. I won't go
so far to predict a glittering future for Jake's opening, but I do think
that after Kramnik's avowal we will see this position more often.
Ree even has something to say about the anti-Uncle Harry Gambit:
Intrepid experimenters should be aware of the gambit 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Nf6
3.Qxe5+ Be7, though I do not quite trust
this for Black.
brobishkin 113 ( +1 | -1 )
Qh5... The weakness in moving the Queen out so soon is it can become a target... I have been trapped by this move after 2. ... Nf6 (in my view the wrong move), but it does target the Queen... But after 3. Qxe5+ with tempo, white is a pawn up and Black will find it's hard to recover from it... The trick in responding to Qh5 is to cover the e5 pawn first then target the Queen... Most likely after protecting the e5 pawn, White will then focus his energy on the weak f7 square... But Black will not find it difficult to support with such moves as Nf6 (protecting the f-file while the White Queen is on f3) and so on, which ever way the lines might play... From there you will find Black setting up a strong position and White then dealing with his expossed Queen...

I will love to play someone (I'll be Black) to try to prove a point of some variation with this attack... I have only lost once against Qh5 at chess clubs... But that was because I errored playing 2. ... Nf6 when Qe7 or Nc6 would be more accurate in strengthening the position at hand...

Any challanges?...

Bro...

indphantom 41 ( +1 | -1 )
Brobishkin Bravo! You've stated exactly the point that I failed to mention in my objections to using Nf6 as a defense against the Qh5 opening. Qe7 defeats the "Uncle Harry" gambit before it can get started. If black then follows with 3. Nf6, this immediately puts pressure on the opposing queen to avoid capture.

And, before Keiserpaul enlightened me, I was not aware of the name of this gambit, but I've been seeing a lot of it lately.

Thanks all

Bob
keiserpaul 19 ( +1 | -1 )
brobishkin Your analyse looks right. Here is an example what can happens

MAI - Oort [C20]
ICS rated light match localhost, 14.11.1998

1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Qe7 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Qf3 Nc6 5.d3 d6 6.Bg5 Nd4 7.Qd1 d5 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.Bxd5 Qb4+ 10.c3 Qxb2 11.Nd2 Nc2+ 12.Ke2 Nxa1 0-1

duffer 22 ( +1 | -1 )
Indphantom - someone tried roughly the same thing on me and resigned after 4 moves when I countered, I figure it was a try for cheap win, probably the same thing with your opponent. I added him to my ignore list.
keiserpaul 37 ( +1 | -1 )
indphantom I did a little research on this opening. It seems that 2. .. Nf6 is a loosing move. I found a lot of games and a lot of discussions about it that points in that direction. So it seems that your opponent only wants to play games in which you gives him an advantage in the first moves. If not, he cancels the game. Some people try to do everything to improve their rates ...
rayape 1 ( +1 | -1 )
CANCEL